PackagingWG/2020-07-22-pip-teamwidemeeting

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Team Meeting: Wednesday 22 July

Attendees

  • Nicole

  • Bernard

  • Georgia

  • Sumana

  • Ernest

  • Pradyun

Agenda

  • Status/blockers

    • Nicole - research plan for pip functionality. now done with docs research plan. Need review of pip search survey from Georgia and Bernard. Standardizing further followup call to action

    • Bernard - working on pip in package manager ecosystem research plan. Looking at #8594 (#8546?) which is a blocker for Pradyun at the moment.

    • Georgia - will look at the pip search survey, working w/ b&n to put the research plans on a calendar

    • Pradyun - Circling back to 20.2. Looks like a few PRs that need to be reviewed and merged. Need UX input from #8594, and need a changelog/release notes support from Sumana.

      • Many minutes after this call - Pradyun and Sumana to talk

    • Ernest - nothing to add.

    • Sumana - No blockers at the moment. Want to support the July release and ready to do the reviews that people need of me.

  • July release blockers

  • UX Team Planning Updates - Draft Schedule (https://www.notion.so/simplysecure/Draft-PIP-UX-Schedule-July-October-2020-a2d55ed05fa340728da75d139b24ab0b )

    • Docs Feedback ideas

      • Sumana: Many of us are friends with the ReadTheDocs team — maybe there should be a readthedocs feature that would help with this!

        • Maybe there’s work that they could do and then we could inhereit

        • Nicole can follow up with Eric/ReadTheDocs Team

      • Maybe we should move the recruitment plan into July?

    • Questions for Sumana/Team

      • We’re realizing that this scope is quite large for the time, and wondering if we should prioritize, and how to plan for other ad hoc support that may be needed

      • Are we still aiming for September/October wrap?

        • Technically CZI goes through December 2020, so we can re-work the flow of hours/time - Focus on End of November

        • TODO: Georgia check contract end dates

      • What other timing should we be aware of?

        • Release timing - October release will have the resolver by default

        • Testing pre & support for feedback on the new resolver as it switches to default in October

        • Planning around vacation/travel etc

          • Ernest out the first week of August

      • Telemetry research proposal idea — do we want to pursue it? Under pip-ecosystem or is it out of scope?

        • Bernard: A concrete thing that we might be able to do is focusing on how telemetry is done in other package managers, e.g. pros/cons, their communities reactions, ideas gathered from other projects (e.g. groups like Tor Metrics)

          • GA: Simply Secure is actually working with Tor Metrics right now as well, so we have some insights from that data and community needs

        • Nicole: Agree that it’d be nice if we could bundle it into the pip-ecosystem epic as well. Would the end output be a recommendations? Implementation ideas? etc?

        • Bernard: We wouldn’t be able to recommend an implementation plan without input from the developers, so maybe instead it’s more recommendations of the telemetry could look like

        • Nicole: also, we could share the community openness to telemetry

        • Sumana: Helpful to understand what the bits of work are — what is possible, ethical, desired, outcomes we’re actually seeking. This feels like an extremely important thing that I want to have happen, but maybe isn’t in scope / possible in the time we have available

          • A good balance would be to avoid putting any specific deliverables for the telemetry, sometime at the end *after* the deliverable things – get a “quick” list to then make it possible to add funding on a follow up.

        • Pradyun: if we had more time, YES, this would be awesome – but I feel like we don’t have enough time?

        • Georgia: Two ideas:

          • Georgia reach out to an academic who works in this area to see if someone is working on this already

            • SH: Tidelift or PyUp (and more)! Some of them work across ecosystems.

            • Georgia: CHAOSS and CleanInsights work from Guardian Project

          • UX Team ask some questions about this as part of the interviews, but not focus on an in-depth telemetry research question

            • “get community feelings about this”

            • SH: Right now, a desktop client sending info back to a server about stuff, eg: Crash Reporting on FF, OK because they don’t care when they [note taker could not follow along]. If you are able to ask about telemetry, one of the ways is “ongoing” vs “on-crash/significant-error” telemetry.

            • Yay expertise! \o/

          • Privacy preserving telemetry!

          • Georgia: Maybe we can align with other efforts that are going on in open source

          • If this leads to a proposal in the future, Simply Secure can help work on this :)

      • If we wanted to explore the idea of creating a pip package for user research, how could that potentially happen?

        • Sumana: debian bug report CLI tool - reportbug

        • Bernard: debian popcon — lightweight consent around collecting metrics

        • Sumana: It would need to make an API call to some service, what API does it call?

        • Georgia: The idea would be something that could be a tool in the toolkit for user feedback in an ongoing way

        • Sumana: this is something we could get volunteers to build if we have the bare architecture and policy details worked out. Leverage conference sprints.

          • What API does it call?

          • Where does the data go?

          • Who has access to it?

          • Add this idea as something to explore during August for the UX team

          • Georgia: could be a CLI tool to interact with user research surveys